Lost Boy Scouts Podcast

Danny: The Lost Boy Scouts podcast here we are again Tyler.

Tyler: Ah, good to see you Danny.

Danny: Good to see you.

Tyler: we had death we did somber.

Danny: Yeah, it was good. So I listened to it and it's interesting because Death has always been something so weird to me and I kind of talked about that Like I was so afraid of dying. I was telling Jesse yesterday. Yeah Him and I were talking about He had seven, I think seven calls that they were on where a couple people did not make it and he is so flat about it. doesn't attach himself to it, doesn't think about it. He's like, it's not my, it's not my cross to bear. It's not my, it's not my issue. You know, I did my best. I can do what you can. And, um, but me, you know, I still kind of like attach myself to it. Right. And so when I was a kid, I, like I said, I was terrified of dying. I would like sit up all night long and think about, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. And I'm going to be here one day. And then We kind of talked about like how that ended up, um, changing. Cause I did have to get some counseling as far as like just some childhood trauma that I needed to figure out, you know?

Tyler: No, absolutely. You got to take care of your bread and mentals. And you know, for those listening, Jesse is a paramedic firefighter. And I think there are certain professions where you touch death more often and you do, you need to shut it down a little bit. And it'd be, it'd be interesting to, to get his perspective on, you know, somebody that's closer to you or somebody that's like, um, but it's great to kind of have that, that perspective to know that like, you know, from that perspective, from a firefighter, from somebody who's out there dealing with, you know, overdoses, you know, puke all over themselves and like, You know, you just do what you can, you kind of suicide.

Danny: He said that that's like one of their highest calls. And I was like, so are the parents there? And he's like, Oh yeah. Oh, that's kind of, I'm like, dude, wow. It's going to be hard. Yeah. I mean, that's gotta be hard. How do you process it? But he's like, man, like, you know, you feel bad, you feel sorry for him, but it's not, it's not, I'm not attached to this situation. I don't kind of put, I don't put any feelings.

Tyler: There's a power to detachment. I think there's a power to detachment in a lot of things. And I think as, as a skill, as a man, it's, Knowing when to really detach is probably an important skill to know as a man. Yeah. Depending on your, like I said, your occupation, you know, there's doctors that I'm sure work on patients and build relationships with them and it's a little bit harder, but going into the scene fresh like that, you really, really have to protect yourself. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So I'm proud of you for doing what you need to do to deal with it.

Danny: Yeah, I still, every once in a while, I'll still catch myself up all night long thinking about, if I was to be gone tomorrow, are my boys prepared? Yeah. Misty, of course, probably not. But it's okay. We're so close. Her and I are so close that she wouldn't be prepared for it. But that's not the way to think. And I don't think that Death is, I'm not afraid of it anymore. I'm not scared of it. I'm not like worried about like, oh my gosh, tomorrow it could happen. You know, but every once in a while I do get in my own head, in my own thoughts, right? And when I listened to the episode, I could hear in my voice that I wasn't comfortable talking about it. You know, that I could tell in my voice that I was like, really having to push myself to talk about it, which was really good for me. Cause Jesse talked about that. He goes, man, you gotta just talk about it. Like you just have to talk about these situations and it's okay. Like if you're afraid, if you're scared, like talking about it is the best thing that you can do. Right. Absolutely. And, and, and having people that you feel comfortable, like they're not going to judge you for being, you know, in your, in your own mind soft about certain things. Right. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. And I really liked like, I still think about the situations that you've had and the things that you've done. how how proud I am of you as a man that you that you are able to Compartmentalize and to to be who you are as a person because I think you are a very caring person You know, I think you have a very strong caring Characteristic about yourself. Yeah, and Yeah, it was it was a to me. It was a good episode That I hope people listen to and and and you know put their own spin on it.

Tyler: Yeah, you know, I mean, absolutely Yeah, it was good Man, so what have you been up to since that? I mean, it's been a week, a week and a half.

Danny: Yeah. So we ended up going to Cody Jinks. Yeah, cool. We had such a good time. Man, Misty and I, we had such a good time. I always worry about being in that big of an environment. People are drinking and there's a lot of things that happen. There's a lot of testosterone. I'm always aware of my situation. With the fact that we train Jiu-Jitsu and that we constantly are told to be aware of your surroundings and know your exit plans, know your exit strategies. I always think, gosh, I just hope we sit next to good people.

Tyler: Right, right. You have to. I mean, anybody that's spent time in the military will talk about knowing, having an exit strategy because no one's coming to save you. And you look at what happened, you know, with this whole Gaza situation. I don't want to get too into, yeah, but like, you know, those are people that were just out having fun. And then next thing you know, You gotta have a plan. Have a plan to exit.

Danny: Yeah, you need to. And Red Rocks is the best venue ever. Dude, every time we go there, we're just like… I'd live here just to go to the concerts here, right? And we got lucky. We were not going to rent a car. We rented a car. We ended up going to Hot Springs the morning of, got back, and then our Uber driver was really cool. She took us right to the top, and everybody was playing Cody Jinks, and we were just kind of vibing with everybody we got right in. My ears are constant, constant. People just want to talk about him. We were in line and some guy says, what did you do? And I'm like, for work, giggling and misty kind of smacks. And he goes, no, how did you get those ears? You know? And everybody around us, um, was started talking about how my ears just stand out and how it's a conversation starter. Absolutely. So we go find our seats. Lo and behold, next to us on our right, couple young kids, wrestlers, wrestlers from Iowa. Oh, okay. One's a high school wrestling coach. One's corn fed. It was the center of the country. Yeah. So then we're cool. Yeah. Guy to the left of us. Like, I mean, he was flirting with Misty a lot, so it was cool to me cause I was like, whatever, man. I mean, you know, in that moment you're not, nothing's going to happen. Right. Right. Now we're just having fun. It was so weird. Really good opening band. Middle band was Clutch. You ever heard of Clutch? Clutch was around when we were in high school. They're kind of like heavy metal-ish. It was not the crowd for that. It was dead silent and people were like, this sucks. And I was like, it's not bad, but it was bad. Yeah. And they're, you know, a bunch of country fans. And then Cody came out and killed it, killed it, killed, killed, um, killed the whole thing. And we sang, Misty and I sang our hearts out with our, with these young kids. Um, I had told myself I wasn't going to drink a beer in the venue. I ended up having one or two, I think, and finding a really good beer and, and, We slept through our alarm and almost missed that plane.

Tyler: You can't swing a burning cat in Colorado and not hit a good beer. Sorry, I know it's so true. They've got it.

Danny: It was good, man. We had a good time. That week, that was it. Kind of hitting the overtime schedule hard at work. You and I have been really hitting some of the things we're working on together. How about you? What did you have going on?

Tyler: Man, I had this awesome experience in Bozeman. Yeah. Yeah. You know, anytime you get to drive from Salt Lake or Heber, where we are, to Bozeman, you get to hit West Yellowstone. Always. And you get to hit some of the best parts of Idaho. And, you know, an amazing drive up the river there. And I love Bozeman. You know, I spent a significant amount of time in Montana. You just get in Montana and it feels bigger. It does. It feels like it lives up to the big sky country. It really does. We had an incredible meal in Bozeman at a restaurant called Sean, a Chinese restaurant or Asian fusion or Um, you know, um, I'm, I'm lucky to be connected to some people who know some people who, um, and you know, we met the chef and he's bringing us out all these dishes. He, I thought he was playing a prank on us. He brought out these hot wings that were like, they were, they were so freaking hot.

Danny: Were they like even oven hot or just, just seasoning?

Tyler: They were definitely oven hot by the time they cooled down though. But it was one of those things where they were so spicy that was like, you, you wanted to enjoy it. but it was so spicy. And, but the whole meal was just blue. It blows my mind. Good time. Yeah. Yeah. Um, heroes and horses. What an incredible, uh, charity.

Danny: Um, how to give a little background on it.

Tyler: Cause I think it's a Navy seal guy that I don't know all the players. I apologize. I know Mitch, I think he's the CEO. He got up and gave a great talk about what they do. It's really a, uh, um, it's a, the charity is focused around our service members. Right. those that are struggling with PTSD, those are struggling to work in relationships, and they basically go to a 41-day boot camp. And the boot camp is structured very similar, very regimented to what these men are used to, right? Wake up early, march to lunch, march to dinner. But they're also bringing in things like a traditional sweat lodge. Or sauna. Sauna. If you're Finnish. Yeah. We had the great opportunity to sit by the gentleman who runs the sweat lodge, who learned traditional sweat lodge from, you know, native culture and had a really cool conversation with him. We sat by a gentleman who runs all the horses. That's the other thing. These men work exclusively with horses to help them understand themselves. It's interesting. It's 41 days and it's cold plunges. It's everything that you would want in rebuilding yourself. building your routine, you know, talk therapy, equine therapy, horse therapy, like hard work, like reconnecting and reintegrating with yourself. And one of the keynote speakers of the charity was a doctor who had spent time in Fallujah. working with the men who were processing all of what they saw, the destruction in Fallujah. Her husband was a graduate of the program, and she just talked about how beneficial the work that they were doing was.

Danny: It looked like you had a good time. Oh my gosh. You kept sending me a couple of pictures and then I was glad because you were like, um, not sending me too much. Cause then I was like, then I'd be, then, you know, I have, I have FOMO and I'm like, I wish I was there. Then I get jealous cause you're there. It was just enough. Yeah, I am not… I teased the shit out of you going up there too, didn't I?

Tyler: Oh, you so did. You so did. And, you know, it got to me a little bit because I got up there and I wasn't going to do it, but then I went to this fantastic… Backstory.

Danny: Hang on. So just so we're clear, What I was teasing Tyler about is Tyler's not, Tyler doesn't have cowboy boots. He doesn't have a cowboy hat. He doesn't wear Western wear. He doesn't conform for anybody, or is what he tells me, right?

Tyler: This is what he tells me.

Danny: And I'm like, You are going to go get a cowboy hat when you get up there." And he's like, bullshit, no way. And I'm like, Oh, you're going to get up there. You're going to have the whole getup. You're going to get cowboy boots. And he, uh, he, he kept fading me off and fainting me and telling me no. And, uh, I knew in my heart of hearts that he was going to fall for peer pressure, not the way that he actually did, because man, did you pull it off? Not, not, not that you, you didn't fall into it, but man, you pulled it off.

Tyler: I, I kind of, yeah, I think I knew in my heart of hearts that I was like, I was going to, I was going to do it, but I was going to do it in the way that I wanted to do it. And, um, I found this incredible vintage store in, in Bozeman, uh, Bozeman vintage. If you're ever there, go check them out. Check it out. Such cool stuff. We're cruising through there and I found a suit. That was vintage, Western, polyester brown. If you follow me on Instagram, you can see a picture of this suit.

Danny: You're going to see a picture of it because when we're editing this, I'm going to put a picture in it.

Tyler: It's amazing. Yeah. I call myself the cosplay cowboy. I bought the suit. I bought boots. Uh, I bought a hat. I did it all. I did it all. I did it. I did. I just leaned in. He did. I leaned in. Um, uh, I was traveling with a pretty well-known Western photographer, Chris man, incredible work. Uh, I've linked to his, his Instagram. If you, if you're into Western photography, just an incredible artist, just an eye. Yeah. He's got it. He's got it. And he took some pictures of me and our group.

Danny: And we ended up happening.

Tyler: You, you bought this, I bought this suit and every, all of us, all, all, all the ladies that we went with, um, you know, obviously they looked lovely. Um, but Chris got a vintage suit and we, we played vintage cowboy. You know, I look, I looked, um, I looked just like, uh, Charlie, what's his name? Uh, no idea what's his name uh charlie crockett okay yeah if you don't listen to charlie crockett just he's he i saw him i first saw him uh at under the big sky okay dude came out at like five o'clock it's like the sun is right in his face and he's wearing a brown polyester suit as well and he walks out his band plays him on somebody throws him a guitar he just looks so fucking cool dude and you just you you really look good and you said

Danny: it's not just me, it's the photographer. And I'm like, no way, dude, you pulled that off. And so then I was teasing you and you were still like, yeah, dude, whatever, man. Yeah, I did it.

Tyler: I did it. I did it. I just, I just owned it in your own way. It looked good. I did it my own way. That's what you said, right? Like I, I got lots of compliments on this, this suit. We were, um, you have a good personality.

Danny: I'm sure that you made lots of friends up there. You probably, uh, yeah. We're able to, uh, smile your way through everything. And I'm sure that everybody was drawn to you.

Tyler: Yeah. The auction started, they raised over $800,000 for the charity in one night. One of these days, I want to be the guy that stands up because at the end of the auction, the auctioneer was really cool. He's like, all right, this is your chance to give. I want a $100,000 donation. I want to be that guy someday that stands up and is just like, I'll do it. Put me down. Put me down.

Danny: Give me two. Did somebody do it?

Tyler: No. Um, they did pick up one, I think for about 50, 50 K, but they were in that. Yeah. I mean, that was just, just a straight donation. Everything else was, what a cool thing to be a part of Tyler. Yeah. A shout out to the grit grace grow ladies. Um, the group that I was with, with, uh, it's a, it's a female version of kind of what we do. We talk a lot about, um, you know, the female issues, the female story. They work a lot with equine. They are a little bit ahead of us in the fact that they do retreats. They auctioned off two retreats Um, for 20 grand a piece. Oh, wow. 20 grand a piece for them. Yeah. So congratulations to them.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. You want to see your friends, um, um, get bigger and stronger and like, and succeed. Right. Like here's, here's kind of an interluding to what our topic is going to be about tonight. It's hard sometimes to cheer, to cheer. Right. Because, because there's always that kind of like envy, Inside of you that you're like, I kind of wish that I was getting that right? I wish I was I was getting that but but man great for them like like we're always stoked for people that are doing that what they can and and You know and One time I'd like to you know, I talked to Tyler about um, even in jiu-jitsu, right? You have a lot of friends, but you can still feel those like hinges of like yeah, well jealousy jealousy, right? um you so in in the academy we've got tests coming up we've got promotions going on yeah um congratulations on the new stripe by the way thank you my four stripe bright or purple belt friend i know it was crazy nothing expected jesse and i trained um we had professor to ourself 15 rounds. So you, you, you get two rounds in and then one round out, but it was just Jesse, myself and professor. And, uh, yeah, he surprised both of us. He, uh, so, so he, he got the tape out and I'm watching him promote Jesse. So I got my camera and I'm just taking pictures. Cause I'm like, man, this is, I'm so glad to be a part of like Jesse's journey. Right. Cause we talked about Jesse before he is. So fun to be around.

Tyler: Yes. So fun to have around.

Danny: Yeah. And he was like, so surprised he got one and he was like, Oh, this is awesome. And then he got another one. And we were like, what? This is so sick. And I'm like, four stripe. And all of a sudden he grabs my, uh, camera and he's like, give me the camera. And I'm like, what? And I turned around and professor has a stripe out for me. And I'm like,

Tyler: Whoa. Wow. This is. You put in the work. Thank you.

Danny: Um, you know, he said some really cool things to me. He said that I had made an adjustment on the fly. So Jesse kicked my butt the first round and then I needed to make an adjustment. And he said, you made the adjustment and it was really cool to see. And then right then I had committed that, uh, If he choked me, I was not going to tap. If you follow me on Instagram, Tyler posted it on his. You can see me go out. It was kind of funny because I don't remember very much. Professor said I grabbed his leg like if I was fighting.

Tyler: Like the fighter that leg locks the referee.

Danny: Exactly. I was still in the fight. You were still in the fight. But man, we've been doing a lot of jiu-jitsu lately. I think you're kind of hitting your schedule a little bit better. You're still trying to figure that part out, but you've been going more consistently. Yeah, anytime you're around that environment more, you feel better, right? Then it kind of makes you want to be there more. It's good, man. It's fun to be around. It's fun to see people grow and see our academy grow. I think we have two weeks and you'll be a blue belt and you'll have been like another part of your journey that you're going to like, that you're going to grow into and, and see, see, see your real metal, you know, see, see really what Tyler's made of. And you have some plans that you've put in a lot of work for two years now.

Tyler: Yeah. Two years for your blue belt. January will be two years, but yeah.

Danny: Yeah. So you'll be a blue belt and, uh, yeah, that's going to change a little bit about your game and a little bit about you, but you also have some plans, you know, with that.

Tyler: Yeah. No, I mean the, the, the, the impetus behind my jujitsu was, um, just needing, you know, needing something in my life. Um, Well, and that brings us into the topic of friendship and historically friendship. I often wonder like, you know, I, I personally, I remember having work friends. I remember having, you know, outside of work friends, but like men's friendship is kind of an interesting, um, it is just the dichotomy there.

Danny: It is. Um, did you have a core group of friends in high school?

Tyler: Yes, and we still talk. You still talk? We still talk. We have a group chat here. You know, we grew up in the church together, and you know, most of them are aware that I'm at where I'm at. Are they all practicing? All of them are still members, and I'm aware of where they're at, and we don't talk much about like, you know, We don't know why, but we do talk quite a bit about the good old days, and we share memes, and we share stuff that we thought was cool in high school with each other. And it'll go silent for a few months or a few weeks, and we'll just dive right back into it. And it was a very, very pivotal group in my life. So you have one as well.

Danny: Yeah, friendship from high school. I talked about this in the very first episode. I made a very drastic change in high school I was hanging out with the wrong crowd getting myself into some trouble had gotten myself into some serious trouble and Then just had decided this is not for me ended up hanging out with my cousins and then meeting some of my best friends that I have now we are all We are very close, and so from the time I was 16 to now, yeah, some great friends. And one of my friends is by far one of my best friends, and I work with him. So we work together. We're on the same crew. We've worked together for almost 20 years. It's great because I was able to change myself. I needed to make a change. But yeah, it's interesting because I always thought it was a Utah thing that in Utah you hung out with your friends because you stayed home. Not very many people left Utah. Like my friend group, not very many people left. They're all still live in Layton. Most of them live in Layton or around the surrounding areas.

Tyler: It's interesting in the way you position it. It brings me back to like, I'm sure if you think back to the times when we were reading the books about Crazy Horse and like the nature of friendship back in those periods was primarily survival. Sure. Um, you know, I'm, I'm sure there were some social benefits as well, but they were part of your war party. They were, you know, they were part of your hunting party. It was, it was survival. And, and, and there's probably still some threads to that, you know, even as you talk about changing friend friends, I mean, it was your survival, right? You had to change in order to, to survive.

Danny: Sure. Yeah, I did. And one thing I often wonder about with friends as men is, How would you like let's say like a new person came in how would that person get? How would he come through the rights because like we all grew up together, but right there was not very many times with a new person Would come in it was like our group and then if a new person did come in. Yeah, it would be like oh He had to go through a little bit of an initiation and see if he could keep secrets, if he could be cool, not hang out with our girlfriends or our ex-girlfriends. That's a big thing for me. I always am like, man, I don't want some dude preying on the girls that we were hanging out with and whatnot and some new dude coming around. Can you trust that? Can you trust it? Can you trust that person? Yeah. I think guys deal with that a lot. I see Tristan and his friend group and they even talk about it. They're like, there's certain things that are off limits and there's certain things that you don't do. And if you do, man, then they're in a fight and they don't talk for a while.

Tyler: I can't help but think about – I think about my father and maybe not just my father, but even friendships in the post-60s, right? You're coming out of a lot of stoicism. You're coming out of the greatest generation, right? We talk about – There's a unique dynamic that obviously I have no attachment to as a non-service member, but those men that go through war together. There are some incredible bonds based on some very vulnerable and traumatic experiences, right? And they're friends. You see that band of brothers. Yeah, your battle brothers. Yeah, your battle brothers. And they can go years without seeing each other, and then they weep when they see each other again. It's true. So, there's an emotional and vulnerable component to friendship that you have to build. It's built over time. I think it takes men a lot longer to trust, to have that kind of trust, to have that kind of vulnerability inside of their friendships.

Danny: passed on from generations, but I did read that if you don't have friends around, if you don't bring friends around, then your kids don't bring friends around, and they don't learn social etiquette, and they don't learn social skills. My parents always had friends over, they always had family over. Yeah. I've been accused of being a little fake sometimes because of how nice I am and how fast I make friendships. What is perceived as friendships, like I do, I make, you know, I can make friends In terms of like friendships, I'm not the kind of guy that will instantly close off from people. But I'm a good read on people, I feel, and I feel like I, but I've been accused that I'm overly friendly and a little fake, that maybe my friendships aren't as solid as I portray them to be, right, or as I am. And people have accused me of being fake, that I'm a little fake and I don't, I'm not as what I would see as friendly, you know, but I am. I feel like I am. I feel like I'm, I feel like I am. I want to find out things about you, but yeah, yeah. If people have told me that I'm not, I would totally agree.

Tyler: I wouldn't, I would never call it fake. I think you, you show a genuine interest. I think there's a barometer to friendships, right? And it takes like, I'm sure as your, as your missus ever brought a, one of her friends who then brought her husband into your group and you're like, I don't want to be friends with this guy. I don't want to be friends with him.

Danny: I don't know who the fuck he is. Or he treats his wife wrong. Yeah. And now I'm like judgmental because I'm like super cool to my wife and you're being a douche to your wife. And I'm like, well, I don't want to be friends with you because I like your wife. Yeah.

Tyler: Yeah. There's a, there's a funny, um, Brian Regan a comedian who talks about going on a golf trip? Yeah, right and he's like his friend just went through a divorce hasn't seen his friend in six months Finally goes and plays golf with him when we gets home from playing golf. His wife was like, well, how was your friend? And he's like, I don't know Right, like she's like, well, didn't you ask him? He's like no we like we just played golf right like and and sometimes is as men we can we can do that there's a stoicism to our friendship and I think that's what allows us to um, you know, maintain some friendships, but like true friendships, what, what does it mean to be a truly a friend with Danny? What does it mean to be on inside of your inside circle?

Danny: Yeah. So, so for me, like friendship for one, my wife and kids are good judge of character.

Tyler: Right.

Danny: If you, if my wife and kids like you, then I'm probably gonna be really, really, I'm gonna like you, right? If we have common interests that you and I can find common ground on, then we will get along just fine. if you are cool to your wife, if you're cool to your kids, then I'm going to for sure be more inclined to talk to you. Be cordial with you.

Tyler: Right.

Danny: Right. Yeah. If you're not, if, if my wife and kids don't like you, then you're probably not going to get an invite to Danny's Christmas party, which most is probably one of the funnest times of the year.

Tyler: Right.

Danny: Yeah. You know? Yeah. But yeah, yeah. Like, you know, I don't, I think like, um, for me, it's, it really is like a sense of how are you? I mean, like, are you being You know, I don't want to come off as fake. I really am trying to be kind. I really do try to be kind. I really do try to not be aggressive, right? And so those are the same things that I look for in a friend, you know? And sometimes, man, friendships happen fast. Yours and I's friendship happened really fast. And I never felt like I never felt like I needed double check Tyler's credentials before I get closer. Right. Um, I really liked how you, I mean, you were so cool with your kids and you were, my kids loved you from the get, from the get, they, when you first met Braxton, Braxton was like, Oh man, I like that dude. Yeah. You know, what about you for, for, for what, what, what kind of, cause you have the church, right? And so the church kind of like is a little bit of a, um, facade.

Tyler: Yeah, it definitely is. There's a veneer around, like, everything inside the church is very, you're grouped by age, you're grouped by, you know, so all of the fifth graders, sixth graders, you kind of grow up together, right? And I remember, There was an experience where like we all would, you know, and you're always doing things, you're always doing activities, there's always scouts and things like that. But I do remember going on activities with these people and I'm like, I'm not friends with this group. And so you do kind of conglomerate together, like, you know, you have your closer friends. It's superficial and I think in a sense it speaks to that barometer right where I can tolerate somebody we may not be friends But I can tolerate somebody and we can we can get along and we can do a project together We could do we can accomplish a task together based on scouts or something like that But they're not necessarily my friends. I think for my friends. I'm really looking for somebody that shows genuine interest That that's will hold space for me somebody that I can I can talk things out with, um, I want somebody to call me on my bullshit. Yeah. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I think we need that. Yeah. But I also have to be vulnerable enough with that person to, to be able to, to, to share that kind of stuff, that bullshit that I want to be, want to be called on. Yeah.

Danny: And be cleaned up. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a good way to look at it. Did you, did you feel like when you left the church, that you were able to create friendships easier or harder because you didn't have that common ground, that common thing in the church?

Tyler: I think the hardest part post-exit was really just being married. I think it was harder. Friendships for me became harder after being married. than it did, you know, leaving the church. Because there wasn't a level of enmeshment, there was a level of codependency, specifically in my church-focused marriage where, you know, my focus changed. My focus changed from having good male friends, and I don't think it was healthy. I don't think it was healthy. You know, we had couple friends, and I didn't always enjoy the husbands. I would tolerate them, and some of them I really did enjoy. Some of them we were really great friends. We'd hang out together as couples. But, I don't think it was until my divorce where I was like, I'm like you. I can get along with anybody. I can get along with a lot of people. Unless I can sense your bullshit. That's how I feel. Right? And I feel like I can feel it. I'm a good judge.

Danny: Yeah, we're a good judge. I can feel your energy. Yeah. I can feel if your energy is bullshit. Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler: Or if you're not into it, if you're not willing to put it out there, yeah. You know, my friends were always very segmented. Even in high school I had a really close group of friends, but then I also had like, I played on the lacrosse team. Not all my friends were on the lacrosse team with me. But I was friends with the guys on the lacrosse team, and I had their back, and we'd go hang out from time to time. But they weren't part of my core friend group. So, it's a little bit of a barometer for me as to who I'm willing to let into my life. You know, my closest friends will always be those people that I know I can trust. Those people that I know that I can open up to without judgment. That'll call me on my bullshit, but then also, you know, make sure… Call you on your birthday. Call me on my birthday. But then they'll also be there to say, okay, I've called you on your birth, your, on your bullshit. Like, how can I help you? Yeah.

Danny: You need something. Yeah. Um, something that's, uh, interesting for me with, with friendships. So when I was in, you know, my early age, my, my early age, other than in Tempe, Arizona, And so elementary school, we all hung out with each other. We, every kid, you know, we played sports with each other. We played basketball, we play tetherball. I don't know if you remember that, that game. Yeah. Yeah. As soon as I went to sixth and seventh grade, they were in the junior high. And now you hung out with your race. So like, not that you couldn't hang out with, so like I'm Hispanic and I'm Mexican, not that I couldn't hang out with another race, but you congregated to your race. It was really weird to me. that that's how it was. Cause you know, I've grown as my, I had been around some military families and so everybody just hung out with everybody. But then when you went to sixth and seventh grade, you knew like you were to hang out with your prison rules. Yeah. It was kind of weird. Moved to Utah. And now I kind of have this idea that no, I'm just going to go find the Mexican kids and the Hispanic kids and those guys will be my friends. But they hung out with everybody. Yeah. You know, Utah, like there was no, there was no rules. And so that was cool to me. Cause then when I got to high school, um, I was friends with everybody. Like I didn't have like a set thing that I had to. And I remember thinking how good that felt for me that I didn't have to like just hang out with certain people that I didn't really care for. Right. But that was who I was supposed to hang out with. Um, and, and now, Um, I don't have any of those reserves, you know, like I don't have any reserves of that, but I, I often wonder if I had a state in Phoenix or in Arizona, if I would have, uh, had did like choose, you know, like stay like that through high school. It was weird.

Tyler: Do you think that like, you know, obviously, you know, we are a bit more emotional, intelligent than, than our, our, our fathers. Do you think your father was able to open up to other men? No.

Danny: No, my dad was in the military 20, 20 plus years. And then he was, um, no, my dad had an inclination for women. And so I don't think other men trusted him around their girls. Okay. Um, I think my dad, um, has a good, he has a good, um, I don't even know what it is, but women are kind of drawn to him. He flexes that a little bit. I don't know if other guys… would trust my dad around their wives or their girlfriends. A bit of a lone wolf, maybe? Yeah, and I think he probably was kind of a dirtbag at that point with certain things. His brothers are great. He has three brothers and his dad is great, but I don't know if he makes friends like that. I don't think my mom is like, my mom is a social butterfly and I think that's where I got my social butterfly-ness from. I have some siblings who are kind of the same way. They don't have a big friend group. They don't make friends very easily and I don't know what side that comes from. But yeah, I don't think my dad. How about you?

Tyler: That's a good question. I know my dad had a lot of business partners that he worked with that became friends. You know, he's been in bands, he's been in, you know, he's owned motorcycles. I think he's had friends, but I don't know that he's ever really been able to open up to them. I couldn't say it because I didn't witness it, right? And maybe that's it. I think the benefit of my friendship with you specifically is that Ben sees you and I go to the sauna. He knows that we go to the sauna to kind of chat things out. He sees us go to jujitsu. So not only do we have the social aspect of we've got the jujitsu in common, but then there's another emotional connection in that we're doing the sauna, we're running together.

Danny: And and he has the benefit of seeing that I was just gonna ask you do you think Ben has a good social group?

Tyler: I think Ben has he's had a really great social group inside of our old community Oh, he's entered a new stage of life because that's interesting. That's let me know the next question I want to talk about his stages of life, but he's he's now in high school He's exposed to a broader group of people and I think that there's you know some cracks have started to appear in that in that social group sure and And he's now having to redefine. So, you know, it's interesting how our stages of life, you know, when I talked about my marriage, like that changed for me, like there are stages in life where your friend groups perhaps change.

Danny: Agreed. Yeah. And it's okay, like to change friend groups to like, to find the best, the best, what's best for you at that moment. Right. Right. Cause you, cause like just hanging out with people that you're like, I don't really want to hang out with you is not fun. No. Um, and it's okay to have splinters and it's okay for those friends to have other friends as well. I think is, um, um, me personally, like I, I like sometimes become possessive with my friends.

Tyler: Right.

Danny: And I'm like, Hey Tyler, let's hang out. And you're like, no, I'm gonna go hang out with them. And I'm like, What?

Tyler: You know?

Danny: And I'm like, man, wait, you have other friends besides Danny?

Tyler: Yeah. Danny, I'm not a puzzle piece. Yeah.

Danny: Right.

Tyler: Right.

Danny: Sometimes, man. And so like, I, I tell my kids the same thing, like, Hey man, like, it's cool if they go, you go hang out with other people, go like, go do other things. Like,

Tyler: That was you and Ray on the mat the other night, by the way.

Danny: Man. Yeah.

Tyler: Yeah. No, I think it is. You do have seasons of friends, but I think what's important is that you're picking people that make you better. That make you better. That make you better. The hands down, my number one marker, can I trust you? Are you going to make me better? Are we going to sit around and talk shit and trash and talk about how miserable things are? No.

Danny: No, no, I don't want to.

Tyler: I don't want to do that. I mean, I certainly had a season in my life where the, you know, those people bring you down, but you, you have to open your eyes and realize, man, um, there's a saying about lobsters, right? He put lobsters in a bucket. If a lobster tries to escape the bucket, the other lobsters will pull him down. Those are not the type of friends you want. Yeah. Yeah. Push me out. Yeah. Push me out. Give me a boost. Yeah. Help me out. Give me a boost. And if, you know, when I get to the top, I'll, I'll reach my arm down and pull you up. Those are the type of people you want. You want people that are making you better. Yeah.

Danny: And, and, and as you, as, as men, you know, as we, as we, um, find those, those good friendships, like for me, this is why Jiu Jitsu, this is why Jiu Jitsu, because, I am so happy for you when you get promoted. I'm so stoked for you. I'm so stoked when I see you training hard and I'm like, man, Tyler's not putting up with that dude shit today. And you're like, I'm not putting up with it today. And I'm like, yeah, hell yeah. Because I don't want you to, if we're going to battle, if you and I are going to war, you better have your best foot forward. Right. And so in jujitsu, when you find that good band of, of people that are going to push you to get better and want you to get better, see you get better. and they're encouraging you, then you want to be there more. Some of my best friendships right now are because of jiu-jitsu. Some of the people that I've met in my life are because of jiu-jitsu. And you learn to struggle with each other, you learn to be happy for each other, you learn to defend each other, and you learn to fight. with and for each other, right? And that in itself is what you want as a man. You want to be able to be that person who people can lean on and who you can lean on, right? Which is going to help your marriages, your girlfriends, your kids, your parents, your job. It's just going to help you all the way around. It's going to help you be able to tolerate a lot of things.

Tyler: Showing up as your authentic self for sure in those friendships is super important You know as we as we wrap up the topic here, and we maybe close out Let's talk about like how do you make friends as an adult? How do you as a man? Find those people you know because I know You know when we when we emphasize that we talk about men's issues. You know those people that are get to those dark places, maybe don't know how to go find, how do you find friends? How do you find, how do you find these other men?

Danny: That's a, that's a really, man, that's a, that's a heavy question because I think part of it is, is, is, is putting yourself out there. Yes. You know, like really letting your guard down, going to things that you may not normally going to events, going to classes, going to, let's say, just anything that, not the bar, not none of that bullshit, but like some things that you may not normally go to. And then just introducing yourself, get out of your comfort zone, be invulnerable to go up to somebody and shake their hands and be like, Danny Ocana, what's your name? Yeah. And then just see, just see what happens. Yeah. I think, um, that, uh, a good handshake and eye contact with your name says a lot about you.

Tyler: Dude, I love that about Jiu Jitsu. And I try really hard, especially in our academy, like if I see a new face, introduce myself. But dude, I remember being in Florida last summer and just being like completely overwhelmed. You know, there weren't many white belts in the room. Um, completely overwhelmed. I'm hoping this February it'll be a little bit different. It's going to be, you know, I'm, you know, I'm carrying a little bit more weight, but at the same time, like I've just grown personally. So getting out of your comfort zone, you know, maybe trying something new for you, whether it's CrossFit, whether it's, but it's gotta be something you, you enjoy, develop those things that you, you enjoy. Um, don't chase accolades.

Danny: Don't chase accolades. Don't chase anything. Accolades are going to come. If you're chasing, it's going to feel a little fake. It's going to feel a little foreign. It's going to feel a little contrived and forced. Right. And people can feel that with men, you know, instantly if that person is, is, is fake and for, and, and contrived a little bit, you know, like you can feel that energy energy is transferred. Professor talks about that a lot with Jiu Jitsu, like you and I are transferring energy. If your energy is off today, then my energy is going to be off in return.

Tyler: I've never felt that more apparently than on the mats. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. You know when you match up with a guy who's bringing a funky energy.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. You know. And maybe like that person's kind of feeling it off of you.

Tyler: Oh yeah. Yeah. And you, you, you definitely have to have the self-awareness to, to, to understand it might be you. Yeah, it might be you.

Danny: Man, self-awareness. Self-awareness. Self-awareness with a friendship is key. Self-awareness, self, self, like where you can like internalize, am I bringing some negativity to this table today? That in itself speaks volumes when you're trying to make friendships. When you're trying to reinvent yourself, if you leave the church and you're trying to find a different path and a different group to hang out with, man, self-awareness is going to help you a lot. So much. Yeah. Man, so just keep that in mind. Friendship is a funny thing, and I think that I'm blessed. I think that I'm lucky to have the friends that I have. I don't have a lot of close friends. I have a lot of acquaintances, and I've really been working hard on kind of toning down just being like everybody's friend. I wanna go back to like, okay, I'm gonna be friends, we're gonna be acquaintances, I'm gonna be cool with you, I'm not gonna be a douchebag to you, but my friends are gonna know the true side of Danny. And not everybody gets that.

Tyler: No, I think you do need to be boundaried around, like I mean, boundaries in and of themselves, boundaried with yourself, boundaried with who you let, what you let in your life, for sure. And I think it's okay to be acquaintances. It's okay to say that like, I don't, I don't need this energy. I don't need what this person has to offer right now. I can still, I can still see you. I can still hold space for you. Um, you know, unless there's a level of disrespect and in which case, you know, I will, I'll turn my back on you. Yeah, that's it. You know, But get out there if you are feeling down because there's been so many times when I've needed to reach out to somebody. So many times when I've just needed to, you know, you feel that darkness overcoming you and you just need to reach out to somebody. You know, build that friend group. Agreed. It's not, it's not easy. It's going to, you're going to have to get out of your comfort zone. Yeah. You gotta put yourself out there. You gotta put yourself out there. Try something new. Sure. You know, there's tons of hot yoga, hot yoga. There's, I mean, get on, get on, you know, meet up. There's all kinds of activities that are happening on me. You know what I mean? That's, we advertised men's ascent on meetup. Yeah. Um, you know, CrossFit, uh, you know, get into a men's league soccer team, like play some rec soccer, you know, don't, you know, don't just sit in, in your hole and wallow.

Danny: Yeah. Yeah. Don't, don't, don't go down that deep tunnel that can get deeper, you know, where there's no end. And what happens then is you're looking up at that little pinhole of light. And you just don't see a way to it. Yeah. You don't see a way out of it. Yeah. And, uh, so let's see here. What, um, so, so what do we got coming up? We've got jiu jitsu test.

Tyler: What is that again?

Danny: November 4th, November 4th in park city, right up here. And then, um, Let's see, you have any trips coming up?

Tyler: I got nothing coming up. I'm hitting the pavement, still taking coaching calls, but I'm kind of looking to figure out, you know, a part of my life of how do I find my life? Maybe we'll do an episode on that. you know, emotional money stuff at some point, because, you know, there's a lot there when you talk about, you know, finding yourself in your finances. But yeah, looking at changing up my employment a little bit, expanding my opportunities. I really feel like I could show up better for people in my life if I had a lot of money. So I'm trying to make it a little tongue in cheek there. But you know what I mean? Like, it's, you know, yeah, that's what my focus is right now.

Danny: Kids come back tomorrow?

Tyler: Kids come back this week. They're on fall break down in the lab right now.

Danny: Oh, they are? Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah. Um, that's good. Uh, yeah, I forgot fall break was going on. Yeah. Our, our kids' classes were so small besides the one that you came in, which was big. Yeah. And then thankfully you came on the mat. Cause I was like, man, a little overwhelmed. Myself, right? Sorry. I got there sooner. No trips.

Tyler: Nothing. Nothing. That was it Yeah, I think my next big trip right now so far what I'm when I look at my I look at my stuff is gonna be big frog in February February. It's all it's all booked out Yeah, and that's good.

Danny: Yeah, we're gonna miss you and I are going to Mexico I know. And so, I don't know if she's going to listen to this, but maybe she will. Yeah, so I've got some plans for that. Looks like, yeah, it's our 20th year anniversary. Oh, congratulations. Coming up next year. So, yeah, looks like I might re-propose to her somewhere cool. Yeah. Awesome. Pretty excited about that. And then Big Frog. Big Frog. Yeah, Big Frog in February. She actually said today that she might be interested in going. Oh, cool. Which would be kind of cool because Mona's always there by herself. Yeah. And that Mona's just hanging out with all the guys. It'll be nice for Misty, her to have like a friend, her and Angie and Mona and Misty can hang out while we do our thing. Yeah. Which would be cool. She said today, she said, Oh yeah, I think I'm going to go to Florida. And I was like, you better tell me soon. Yeah. Cause I already got plans lady.

Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. I need to book a hotel room. Yeah. Tyler's sleeping by the pool again. Again.

Danny: No, so yeah. Yeah. So we got holiday season two.

Tyler: So it's like, you know, we're getting into November. I mean, it's almost November. I know you got Thanksgiving and Christmas, so.

Danny: Yeah. Misty was talking about, uh, decorating for Christmas already. And I was like, dude, she is a Christmas freak. She will put up Christmas. She would put up Christmas today. If I said, okay, you can start putting up and being the boys fight. We fight at least till November, no Christmas stuff, but she would put it up today if she could. Right. And you know how she decorates our house. Our house is decorated all the time. Yeah. It's like Pinterest. Yeah. You're lucky. You're lucky cool, man. So, uh, yeah, let's um, uh, let's see here. You can still find you at lost boy scouts Yeah, um, they can find you training on the mats park city.

Tyler: You just hit it hard the next few weeks week and a half Yeah, i'm gonna get around that test.

Danny: Yeah, and uh me is a compassionate underscore gentleman and uh, yeah park city come hang out. Um come Come give us some input and give us some feedback.

Tyler: Yeah. And thank you for being my friend, Danny.

Danny: Thank you very much. And thank you all for listening, man. Appreciate that. Appreciate all of you. Yeah. Take care, guys. See ya. See ya. Bye.