Lost Boy Scouts Podcast

Swell AI Transcript: S1 E8.wav
00:00 Tyler All right. Welcome to the Lost Boy Scouts podcast. I'm your one of your hosts tonight.

00:11 Chego We got some guests, but I'm Tyler Clark and I'm Danny O'Connor and everybody. Yeah. So we're just starting this out and we're excited because we have my older son Braxton and his friend Roman, but I didn't even really know his name was Roman. I only seen a book that he writes in. This is one of the coolest things. We're going to talk about it, but we call him a Chego and they're in town. They're friends. And so what we thought is with this podcast, we had some questions and we're going to dive

00:42 Tyler into it, but it's a boys and sex and the book sex, the book. So yeah, just let's kick off the book a little bit. This is a book that was recommended to me. I don't know. One of my uncles, somebody out in California, sent it to me. Peggy Ornstein wrote this book. It's called Boys and Sex, right? Young man on hookups, love, porn, consent and navigating the new masculinity. Now Peggy Ornstein is a New York Times bestseller. Books called like Don't Call Me Princess, Girls and Sex, Cinderella, Ate My Daughter, Waiting for Disney, Flux. She's got a TED talk out there that's got like 4 million views. A very well respected author and reporter. And I think she did a great job with the book. I think it's one of those books as a man. It really makes you think about who you are.

01:30 Chego Yeah, for sure. And just so you guys know, Braxton and Chego did not read the book, but we brought them in because we want to get a perspective from their generation because our generation is a little different and what they navigate in is a little different. So this is Braxton and he's my son. Braxton, give us a little bit about yourself, what you're doing now, and then we'll go on and we'll do the recap.

01:55 Braxton So I am 26 years old. I just finished my second tour to the Middle East. I got back here in about February of this year. I currently am stationed in Fort Liberty, once known as Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and I am currently working on getting out and setting up my own business.

02:16 Chego All right, man. Yeah. And so this is Chego and these guys are like brothers. I've seen them interact with each other and we've had such really cool conversations lately and they really are like brothers. And I would think you would think that Chego has been a part of our family for his entire life. Like, you know, you like interact with each other.

02:36 Danny So this is Roman Manchego and we call him Chego. Hi, everyone. My name is Roman Manchego. Braxton and I served on our first tour together and we became friends over some shared trauma. I'm 24 years old. I got out of the Army in December of 2022. Now I'm currently going to school for political science with a minor in sustainability, along with working with veterans to try to continue to make every day better for us.

03:08 Chego Nice. These guys are legit. These guys are awesome. And so let's recap. Let's recap the father. Man, we got so much good feedback on that episode. Amazing, right? We had like a lot of a lot of people like resonated with the things that we talked about. Just being a father and the dynamics that you have to learn to navigate as you grow as a father and you do these these huge you realize that you put your father on a pedestal and I ended up talking to my dad on Father's Day and it was the first time that my dad called me on Father's Day. My dad's never called me on Father's Day and I was like, well, the egg is almost like one of those things where we were talking to each other and he called me and we talked for a little bit longer. You put that energy out there. We did. The universe responded. And it was awesome. And so let's talk about the Utah 1033rd Foundation event.

04:11 Tyler Yeah. What do you think? I thought it was a great event. I think happy hamburgers. They definitely made my mouth happy.

04:19 Chego So we had this purple belt that trains with us. And so, yeah, I was in a little bit of a funk. We had some issues with the honey pots, which is the porta potties. Yeah, it's some issues with like just getting the event going and the bands were great. Everything was good and jiving. I just was a little bit. I had a little funk going on and then I ate a hamburger and everybody around me was like, I could tell instantly that your day was completely better. Yeah. And so we ended up raising just about $2,000, which is great. And I ended up meeting with Dave Kaufman from Utah 1033rd. And he was like so excited. He kept saying, if you guys want to do anything else, if you have any other stuff that you want to do, we are in. We are in for whatever you guys do because I don't think they have people that will throw events for them like that. And then all their proceeds go straight to the people. And we had online donors. We had a Instagram foundation where people could donate. And that was cool.

05:34 Tyler And it's always a great opportunity when you can like go pour one on a cop. Yeah. Right. Like who gets to throw a cop in an armbar every once in a while?

05:42 Chego You feel like there's a balance of power. And we're lucky because we train with cops. We train with military men. And yeah, like we talked about before, sometimes your relationship with cops could be bad. And then you meet them in this environment of jujitsu.

05:58 Tyler And next thing you know, you're like really good friends. Everything changes. Yeah. So before we get too deep into it, let's just go ahead and just say this is a heavy topic. We're going to talk about boys and sex. Yeah. Right. And we are going to get a little gritty. So if we have some younger listeners out there that we know we have, if you're a parent and you let your child listen to this, go ahead and listen to it first and make sure that you feel like the content is appropriate. But at the same time, these are conversations that need to be had. Yeah. Right. And we need to not be scared about having these conversations because they're important. It fuels society.

06:45 Chego And the way that Tyler and I grew up is completely different than the way that Jago and Braxton grew up. The avenues and the things that they have to go through, especially with the fact that they're both active duty military at times. The things that they've had to see and do with their soldiers is completely different than something that Tyler and I grew up in. Tyler and I are both about in our 40s. And we grew up without internet. Right. These guys have had internet the entire time. I remember telling Braxton from an early age, do not send pictures of yourself that you should not send of yourself. Absolutely. And I'm sure your dad told you the same thing. Be careful of what you put out there because Jago wants to be the president of the United States.

07:43 Tyler And next thing you know, Braxton is like, dude, you saw the movie Titanic, right? Absolutely. You know, that Jack draws that nudie picture. It's like a lot of radio show. Yeah. 80 years later, it comes to the surface. So that shit gets out there. It stays there.

08:00 Chego It stays there forever. Yeah. So as you go on and we implore you guys to read this book, this book caught me off guard. And after I read it, because Tyler told me about it, I was I was in a little like, whoa, I ended up calling Tyler and being like, dude, I need you to talk about this because it draw it pulled so many energy and so much emotion from me. One of like myself, two of how I interacted with my children, because from an early age, from an early age, I was open and honest with Braxton about like sex, taking care of himself, protecting himself. And I'm not I'm not the kind of dad that like sheltered him from naked naked girls or nudie pictures. When he was five, American Pie came out. And I wanted to see the show so bad. And so what happened? We ended up taking him with us and like telling him, close your eyes, put your hands over your eyes. And my buddies were like, you know, we're 19 years old. And they said, Braxton, this is how you walk.

09:13 Tyler And so he ended up washing the leg. Do you remember? Oh, absolutely.

09:18 Braxton Yeah. Yeah. I told you. Yeah, absolutely. You did. You did for sure. Yeah. Probably six or seven is when I really remember having the conversation or at least being aware of what sex was, what nudity was, what nakedness was, and being exposed to that in my life.

09:40 Chego For sure. Especially because we were young. My friends and I were young and they thought it was so funny. Kind of like teaching them the nodding stuff. Yeah.

09:49 Tyler You know, you know how you would do like with your kid with the. I'm the uncle that buys like the BB gun, right? You know, a similar kind of like innocently destructive behavior, you know, or like influence. And it's interesting.

10:03 Chego So Chango is he's the younger brother. Yes, actually. He has an older brother. So you know, his older brother would tease and like make make like comments, probably,

10:13 Danny right? All the time. Yes. My older brother was a big influence on my growing up. But the real small difference. So yeah, we grew up fighting all the time. How much age difference between you and your brother? Three and a half years.

10:25 Chego Yes. What's his name? His name is Jackson. Oh, good. Is he awesome? He is all right.

10:31 Tyler That's a classic younger brother. That is a very younger brother response.

10:37 Chego So whenever you start these conversations with your children and Peggy does such a good job, she covers a lot in the book. Yeah. There are things that we as parents need to understand that our children are navigating. Right. But she says that she was so nervous that boys wouldn't be honest with her. Yeah. Because she had gone. She did girls in sex first. Yeah. And then she went on the book tour and everybody was hitting her up.

11:09 Tyler You got to do got to do boys. Well, what about the boys?

11:11 Chego What about the boys? She's like, Mom, I'm a girl. Right. And my sexual organs tell me that I only think in one way. And how am I supposed to talk to men or boys about this thing? And what she found is that they were they did want to talk about it. But what happens? They don't know how to. They don't know how to.

11:31 Tyler They've never been taught to talk about it. Right. You know, a dad that wouldn't even ask for directions, why would he, you know, especially in the postmodern era where sex was very taboo. And I grew up in a religious organization where sex was not talked about. Right. Right. Like it's a thing because Mormons have huge families. Right. But it's not talked about. The way they do talk about it is premarital sex specifically is is on an equal playing field with with murder.

12:05 Chego That's insane to me.

12:07 Tyler Sometimes when when they tell me things like that, I think they're joking. It's a it's a manipulation to teach by fear. Right. And you teach by fear rather than teaching like the true, honest, like creative power and the importance of bringing up young people and being emotionally and mentally ready and available to bring up young people. It's a lot easier to just say don't have sex because you'll die. You'll get chlamydia and you'll die or don't have sex because you'll you know, that's like murdering your neighbor. Right. And then you get scared. You're 10, 12, eight year old brain gets scared and it encodes in your you know, in your raw nervous system, which is interesting because when you think about the closed loop that is our reproductive system, it's tied to the autonomic nervous system. Always. Right. Your your penis is a giant nerve. Absolutely. It is. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. And it functions on the opposite end of the fight or flight. Right. Instincts to procreate is as strong as it is to live. Right. Pass on our genes. Yeah. And so I understand what they were trying to do. And so I'm going to tread lightly, but I do think it does not get discussed properly. And unfortunately, what we see in some Mormon culture is we see a lot of confusion. We see a lot of pornography consumption. A lot of my coaching clients have issues where they are. They struggle with that.

13:40 Chego So where do you get information if you're not where you get it? Well, and yeah, if we're not talking to if you're nervous about talking to it, right, then I'm not that I'm nervous talking to if you bring it up and my children bring it up or like, let's say they see something and all of a sudden I'm nervous because I'm I've been taught to be nervous about it. Then what happens? I pass that on. Yeah. Because no matter what, even if I tell my children, don't be nervous. If they see my body language, nervous or like clamming up, no, no, we're not talking about that. Guess what? They feel that and they think that something's wrong. Yeah. Now, on the other hand, I've had to tell both my kids, like, listen, don't be so don't be so comfortable talking about things. Yeah. Because because you know, like Misty, she grew up, she misty had I mean, we love her to death, right? But she's one woman. Yeah. I'm surrounded by all these boys. So my boys bring over their friends. Right. Yeah. And there could be a bunch of them. The next thing I know, they're talking and talking and talking. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, what in the world are you talking about? And I'm like, Oh, yeah, duh. They're so comfortable, you know, talking about it. So I couldn't imagine being told to think about that. I don't know, like, if even if how you grew up, Chego, like, if you if it was if it was

15:08 Danny frowned upon or if you like talked openly about sex and stuff like that with your parents. So my parents made it a real quick thing to be as open as possible with it, because that's the reality of the world. So as CDs, condoms, consent, were all things that were discussed very fluidly and openly because that's the reality of the world. You never know what's going to happen. So we were very comfortable with talking it at our home. Like you mentioned earlier with your wife, my mother, Denise is the best and she is, unfortunately, the victim of two boys and one husband and all of the same things. So that's the reality of that moms have to deal with is living with these boys that it's different for them seeing how they grow up differently. But with that being said, my mom has done a great job managing all the demons that these

15:59 Chego young boys have put her through. And it's great because when you have a strong mom like that, right, because both my kids have I mean, and I'm sure like Denise and Misty would get along really well, right? Because they will. They will. They absolutely will. So even I was thinking even like we bring our friends around like Tyler around and like it's such a crazy dynamic. But if you're not comfortable talking about that situation, if you're not comfortable talking about it, then your boys get nervous and they're going to learn. They're going to learn somewhere. And that's what Peggy talks about is locker room talk is so rampant. Yeah. And and and if you're not part of that, then what happens? We go back to episode one.

16:47 Tyler Right. You feel lost and you get you get in your pseudo self and then you make up a lie or you lie about somebody that is in the school and that rumor gets out and you ruin two reputations. Right. For sure. I didn't know how to have the conversation with my son. I didn't. I actually finished the book. And the first thing I said, I was driving back to school. I was like, Ben, I don't know how to have this conversation, but I'm going to start right here. Penis and vagina. And he got he got all red. And like, you know, since then, we've been able to have conversations because he's he's at it. You know, he's slightly a lot younger than you, but he now has the power of the phone. Absolutely. Right. Like it gets one like I had dial up near the end of my, you know, young adult years. And so you could you could access it then. And then, of course, I remember, you know, finding a Playboy in my grandfather's garage and, you know, it was just what the access wasn't there. So it was either locker room talk or these these little these little spaces. But now you can punch in two buttons and that's it. Yeah, we go. You can get on Instagram.

17:53 Chego You can get on Snapchat. You can you can see you can see everything. Right. My my experience saying I found my uncle's Playboy stash and I was like, wow, this is where it's at. And because my dad wasn't around, my mom would have these. She'd say, ah, he thought, do you have anything you want to talk about? And I was like this and but. I didn't have a dad to talk to me about that stuff, so I did think early on that I wanted to talk to my boys. I wanted to be like open and honest with them because whenever. Whenever you think about it, it's just you're you're lost about it. You get so confused about it. You get so discombobulated. And I didn't want them to know to have the conversations that they could hear or or tell themselves without my voice being louder than those. My voice, my my my thoughts to them about this louder than the things I knew they were going to hear and talk about and do and say because I'm just another even to this day, I'm still sometimes an 18 year old kid.

19:16 Tyler Right. Well, I mean, I think that that that speaks to the core functionality of sex as a as just kind of a natural natural impulse. And right. The it is it releases tons of dopamine, oxy cotton, you know, and those chemicals can be addictive in and of themselves. In fact, when you are shooting up heroin, you're not really getting hooked to the heroin, you're getting hooked to the reaction your brain has to that chemical. Right. The high the high the high that you get from it. And it's it's the same way. And when you start looking at porn as a man, right, you do two things. Well, you get addicted to the the the high the brain high of, you know, seeing naked pictures. Absolutely. You you get high to the new the new. Right. Because the prohibition. I'm going to skip that word. You know, but the Internet like the the Internet, you know, because of the Internet, everything is new. You ever watch the same clip more than once?

20:19 Chego No. Like she says, it's like tab after tab after you can have like 50 tabs. Right. Until you find the thing that you're like, that's what I meant today.

20:27 Tyler So you're doubling down, right? You're doubling down. Absolutely. And then if you start using that stuff, you know, because I'm all who's, you know, all for a self pleasure routine. But if you actually really start using that stuff, you are actually training your brain to speed the orgasm. Yeah. Yeah. Always. Right. And so your next real experience with with the real thing is likely going to. And that's why I think we see, you know, we're seeing so many, you know, ED medications pop up these days and they're targeting younger and younger people.

21:01 Chego Right. Yeah. And I would say for sure, you you you know, you and I talked about porn.

21:07 Braxton Oh, absolutely. Yeah, we absolutely did. I remember the first time I got caught. And I was thinking like, oh, man, what am I going to do when I get caught again? Because I'm not going to be able to stop. But eventually you learn that the real thing is completely different. Because you start to look at a woman and you're like, well, I want what I see. But then you don't come back to it because you find out that it's a lot more. Pleasurable when you don't have those expectations of what you see on a video. Right, right. So coming back to it, I remember the first time I got caught. We were in the garage and he brought it up and he was like, hey, I saw your phone. And I was like, oh, yeah, I absolutely did. I want to know. You just copped it. Yeah. But wait, it's a friendship. The first time that I actually got like caught wasn't even with my dad. It was with my friend Cesar's dad. And I used to run around with this group with my cousin, Cade, and a couple of other a couple of other guys. And we were down in his basement and it was on a porn site. And his dad found it the next day. And I was like, oh, man. What do I do? But I didn't stop it until I got caught with my dad. Right. And then after that, it was like, OK, you just got to rangle it in. You got to get it back in. Expectations will never meet the reality because the reality is that

22:32 Tyler that's not how all women operate. Right. And it's sad because they they they're really doing the balance of feminine and masculine energies a disservice. But, you know, you can get addicted to money, too. Right. And now we're seeing now we're seeing, you know, this whole this whole kind of concept of, you know, seeing fangirls or only family fans.

22:56 Danny And we found like this. That is insane. It is a real different world out there for the porn community as a whole. Like it's you pay specifically for a specific person you want to see. And they have thrown it in their Instagram bios and everything about them.

23:13 Tyler They now have social media. Dude, it is scary. So I followed this this young lady that I followed her Jujitsu account. And I was like, here I am recovering from my divorce. And I find this account. She's attractive. So I follow her on Instagram. She messages me on Instagram. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh. What do I do? I'm not used to this situation. Next thing I know happening, right. Right. Manifesting something. I see me in the next thing I know, it's like she hits me up with this only fans thing. And I'm like, what is this only fans? And so out of morbid curiosity, I spend, you know, ten bucks for the month. And I'm just like, this is kind of sad. It's it's kind of sad. And she had a whole Amazon shopping list like buy me these gifts and like, you can send me these gifts and I'll wear it and model it. And I'm just like, this is really toxic for for men who don't understand their attachment style.

24:11 Chego Well, well, part of it probably is and like back to the book, Peggy says that like a lot of these guys live their life through this fantasy world because they don't have the ability or the strength to like talk to women, right. Like talk to them, like go and talk to them and just have a creative conversation. Like I can't imagine a world where like you don't go and speak to the person. But I know both my boys, Chago and Braxton, have to navigate a world where they have to think. I remember Braxton, I talked about this when he when I'm thinking about like dating sites and stuff like that. He's like, well, dad, their whole thing is they want me to subscribe to this only fans. And I'm like, what? I don't even know what this only fans thing is.

25:03 Tyler And so you're getting to make millions. Yeah, you're getting hit up there by it. And you're getting up on Tinder. Yes. Or Hinge or really? Yeah. You name it. Any any woman that you. I've I've wondered about that because I've dove into the dating apps a little bit. Right. And it is interesting. It always seems like you have to pay for the service. Yes. And, you know, you honestly, I'm like a little bit shocked because I probably could have brought home a different woman every night if I wanted to. But it's like it didn't seem I didn't go like you're constantly getting blown up. And yes, it became overwhelming. I ended up just deleting it. I'm like, I'm just going to live in like God and see what happens in real life.

25:48 Braxton So Snapchat. Yeah, Snapchat. They have the quick ad that's within your local area. Right. Wow. People will randomly add you and immediately send you a nude. Wow. Really? Don't even talk to him. Yeah, I've had it happen three times. They will immediately send you a dude and say, hey, if you pay, you can meet up with me for two hundred and fifty dollars. But you have to pay the two hundred and fifty dollars. But here's more of my nudes. Who could be a man saying this and saying this to scan you out of your money?

26:23 Danny Yeah, absolutely. So that is the reality. And I want to touch on what Daniel was talking about earlier about men who are so addicted to these fantasies. And I learned about this in my first semester at college. After my time in the military, there's a group of these men called incels where they do not have sexual intercourse with women. And they are just completely exposed to that is their only way. If they've given up, they've given up, they will no longer have sex with women. And I remember hearing about this for the first time. And I'm in a class with one other man, and that's the professor in the class. And I'm like, wait, these are a real thing. Men like this exist. They were too afraid to go approach a woman and ask for their number. Seriously, they're just done. I just couldn't believe it when I first heard about it.

27:03 Tyler I want to know what percentage of those men I have come from single mother homes. And I'm not trying to like we're not trying to one. I don't want to get into shaming. Yeah. Yeah. Some single moms got to make a buck.

27:15 Chego And if she's doing it on only fans like, you know, there's there's always going to be a customer base. Well, and me personally, like I can't I can't sympathize. I can't empathize only because I'm not in that world. Right. I'm just not in that world. One, listening to the whole three of you tell these stories. And I'm thinking, I have no clue what you're talking about. I was completely surprised in call of guard when we talked about just only fans and how they approached you. Right. And the fact that like I would tell my boys, all of them, just go talk to the girl. Just go talk to the girl. I don't if you have a 50 50 shot. Right. One way or the other. But you have a 100 percent shot of not of nothing happening if you don't go and talk to them. I would preach that constantly to them. But now I don't know how to even communicate with these guys. And so these two boys are in that almost 30 range. And now when we look at like Ben and Tripp, how are we going to like tell them, how are we going to like explain to them that. That this is an unreal world. Yeah, it's an unreal world. And the fact of the matter is, is like you said, we have all these boys and men around them. But what if you don't? What if you don't have this group of this quorum of men with these strong values and strong personalities? Because the four of us in here have very strong personalities, very strong personalities. And we can we're comfortable with ourselves. Right. We're comfortable like I'm comfortable with myself. I'm hanging out with myself. And. Our conversations are only around a lot of men. Look, we don't have a lot of women around because and not that we don't we choose to, but we just we just don't. We have we're around a lot of men. What if you don't? And now we're going to that world of like, I forgot the word that you said in the. In cells. In cells. Yes, in cells. And so these men, these men, they don't even know. They probably can't even interact with a human. Yeah, that is.

29:26 Braxton And now we're going to. The problem is here. Absolutely. There and the chat box. Yeah. They're they a kid who Tristan or Ben's age, right? The woman is going to expect, unfortunately, and it's nothing against them. It's just the way that the only fans and the fans, Lee and the other apps that are used, they're like, well, I want you to pay for me. Why aren't you paying for me? That could be dinner. That could be the date that there's. That's the difference of like asking her like, hey, I'll pay for the date, but you got to come out with me rather than, well, I have an only fans. There's a million other guys that are paying me $10 a day to see me nude.

30:14 Tyler Why are you not paying? It reminds me of a clip I saw on Instagram. I follow this account, Drum Daddy's, and he's just he just does this spiritual wisdom on and he hits his little his little drum and he goes, he goes, dear, he looks up this guy goes, dear God, the rib you took from us is now charging us $250 for a conversation.

30:33 Chego Oh, that's awesome. Well, what a world that we're living in. And maybe even Peggy like is going down this path of porn. And and she's talking about like. Creating this conversation and the fact that like some dads and some older gentlemen, older generation just don't have any clue. They don't know. Right. And so what they choose to do is just be like. Yeah, just I'm not going to talk about it. We're not going to talk about it. So now we have this young group of men who are talking to each other and they're watching their pain, they're doing this. So what is it happens? They expect. Yeah, they expect. And if they don't get they take. Yes, they take. Tyler and I, we talked about this in detail, in detail during a very long sauna session that we were both like tired of. But we didn't really understand it because we never dealt with this. We've never died down this situation except for with our boys and the younger generation that we have coming up. And like we said before, it's excuse me, it's consent consent. And the age of consent and when Peggy dives down this consent, she goes down with this story at the very end of the book of these this. And she I think she gives them different names and you just because to protect them. But the story is amazing because the girl has a certain view of it. Yeah. And she says, I just I didn't want to do it, but I did it anyways. Yeah. The guy has a different view of like, well, she wasn't quite into it, but eventually she got into it. Right. And their whole seeing their storyline and the way that it comes together and the explanations that they do. And now after the girl said, no, I wasn't. I didn't want to do it. Yeah, I didn't want to do it. And the guy was like, wait, wait. OK, yes. Maybe I forced maybe I maybe I pushed. Maybe I maybe I should have read the signs different.

32:49 Tyler And it's such an interesting excuse me. It's such an interesting case because I think I've heard stories similar to that specifically in the LDS culture, right? Because there is so much shame and guilt around the concept of sex and even just kind of, you know, things leading up to sex. Right. We probably maybe should have done a definition of what is sex. But I think at this point, it's like any any any any contact. Right. You could be kissing. It could be touching in this day and age. Right. Right. It could be this in this point. It's photographs or texting, texting or videos. Right. So you'll you'll you'll get, you know, a boy who's interested in a girl and the girl's kind of interested in him. But then she starts feeling guilty after after potentially consenting. Right. And she'll go to her her her religious leader and say, you know, I was raped. Right. And I'm not here to like shame me. You know, these these know we're trending very lightly. Yeah, it's it's more or less we need to have these conversations so we can understand, you know, seek understanding rather than,

33:52 Chego you know, pointing fingers. Right. And the way that these boys are the way that that these boys are navigating way different than the way that you and I are navigating. Yeah. And because our goal is to encourage men. To find and seek help. What are we explaining to them? What are we telling them? What are we talking to them? Yeah. Um, my name Braxton's conversations from a very early age was she's not your play toy. Yes, she's not. She's not there for you to tell her whatever you want to tell her

34:26 Tyler to get her to do whatever you want her to do. Yeah. And I tell my daughters because I I'm on the opposite end of that spectrum. There are going to be a lot of men who will want to fuck you. Yeah. Right. I want you to find a man who wants to build with you. Yeah. Right. Find somebody who's helping you become a better person. And you cherish this because you you do hold the key. You do hold the key because I personally believe because this this is an instinctual power. Right. The true scope of manhood is when she says, no,

35:01 Chego that you're in control of your nervous system enough to say, OK, good. Done. You don't have to keep talking. You don't have to convince her. Right. But and that and that's the world that we live in. That's the world that we live in. We just and then because women are being taught and we're encouraging women to speak up, they they do have a choice. It is their body is their choice. And we don't want to have to be in a situation where we're defending like the person that we see, we see these men. We see these young men as like stall worth very, very structured men. Right. You don't want to see that. And you really need to you really need to tread lightly. Tyler and I are employing you to really talk to your children about this. And these two men have a whole different world that they live in, a whole different world. Plus, they're in the military around men. And they are they are held to a different standard. Right. Yeah. And so when we talk about consent, we're talking about both people because it can happen that a man doesn't give his consent, but he's told that's cool, man. That's cool. It's cool. And she does a good job. Peggy does a great job about talking about like a guy going. Yeah, I wasn't comfortable with that, but I'm supposed to be comfortable.

36:27 Tyler Yeah. And I think and normally we've been talking pretty head or head or head or normative relationships here. Right. Like we don't want to exclude, you know, our homosexual friends and those that, you know, are different. Right. Because their experiences are different. Their experiences are even more shamed. And there's more guilt around their experiences. Right. And it's much more destructive, the type of thought and behavior that society has around those type of interactions.

36:56 Chego So we have to have a dialogue. Sure. So here we go, boys. The world that you guys live in, the world, the things that you are taught for consent, just consent alone, just consent alone. And we'll give each of you guys a chance to talk about what's your definition of consent and and how you now explain it to the because both of you guys have a a role in the military or had a role in the military where you had to explain what consent was. And so it doesn't matter, Chico, go ahead. And you talk about your how you understood consent at your at your age now and how you explain it.

37:35 Danny So my biggest form and features of consent is that both parties are communicating about what is about to happen. Yes, is great. But no means no at the end of the day. And if the no is said, then you cannot change. You cannot convince there's no go backs. No means no. That's what I was taught with consent from my mother from an early age. And it's good that I had mom to teach me that, because at the end of the day, when I'm pursuing women to be intimate with like that, you have to have the consent. And that is the world that we live in. If you don't have it, you don't pursue. You do not pass go. You do not collect two hundred dollars in a monopoly. You do not get to have that. And that is the reality that men need to understand.

38:23 Chego That's my understanding of consent. And how do you explain it to you? Like when you were when you were telling the young soldiers or the young men, how are you telling them that explaining that to them?

38:33 Danny How are you giving them that guidance? It's simple. There is no other way other than she is willing to give herself to you through that conversation of are you OK with having sex? May I kiss you is the first step. May I hold whatever the case may be. You have to have that willing conversation open and clear. If you don't, then you leave the question up to the air to have a reality. Who knows what's going to happen? Because if you're not talking about it, what are you OK with? What is she OK with? You need to have those boundaries set.

39:10 Chego You got anything, Braxton, to add to that? What Chego said, because I think that's good, man.

39:14 Braxton Like, go ahead. The thing that I would add is that what the military has designed to prevent against this is very structured and it's very

39:25 Tyler if it's utilized properly, can help so many people. Our tax dollars at work, folks.

39:31 Braxton Absolutely. Right. It's an annual training that you get. Sure. That is it's called SHART, really sexual harassment, assault response program. And every year you get a training on what consent is, what it means, what the difference between harassment, what the difference between assault. And for me, I would agree with what Chego said, as consent is, no is no. Yeah. And that doesn't mean you go any further than you lay a hand on her that's passed her consent. Yeah. No matter what that means to her. And if you're not careful and you break the consent, you break yourself as a man. Yeah, because now you're compromised yourself. Yeah, because now it's so much easier to be like, wow. Every time they say, no, I can break it. Yeah, you move past principles. And I can move past my own morality. Yeah. What do I live for versus what does she live for? If I live higher than her. Theoretically, right. And I continuously break that every time it just becomes easier. And then you get yourself into a hole. And it goes back to your guys' episode of reinvention. Now you have to reinvent yourself as a man. Yeah. Because you're so. Easy and willing to break your own principle of saying no. That. Where do you start? Yeah. How do you start? Because you can't be around women.

40:59 Chego Your company is broken. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And if you can't tell like how how serious Tyler and I are taking this, we we are honestly like we're challenging. We're challenging our our audience, we're challenging our friends. Give us ideas. Give us like some other input for how we can explain to this younger generation. Now, going back to the fact that like men, even men can be compromised into doing something that they're not comfortable doing. And when we talk about other. And and forgive me, I don't I don't I don't practice a lot of this stuff at home, but with with homosexuality and gender, gender issues and neutrality and stuff, I just don't understand it enough. I don't practice it enough to know that then their own world is completely different. But these guys are these these young men are living in that world that they have to understand both sides. They have to understand that when they're talking to a person that doesn't want to be addressed as a pronoun, they're living in that world. They live in that world. And I tell Braxton all the time. Yeah. And even when Shago and I talk like I'm like in my house, like we just don't practice it. We just don't practice it enough. We're we're empathetic and we want to be strong. We want to be seen as strong men, but we don't practice it enough. So we give these guys a pass. We always give these two a pass if they say something out of line, you know, like, but this is the world that they're living in.

42:44 Tyler And you can hear in their voices just how much effort and thought is going into it. Yeah. And it's really surprising because, you know, specifically here in Utah, we don't have a great we don't have a great sexual education system. I don't think at all. I think because of the large influence of the church, there's not enough education. And the only way you become better is by learning to be better. Yeah. Right. You cannot put a blinder on to these situations and say, it's all going fine. La la la la la. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You you you cannot be the ostrich. Right. Nobody, you know, in in. Nobody should have the right to hurt another person. Right. Like and this this is a very sensitive subject in the sense that you may not be you may not be physically injuring them, but there is emotional damage that takes place. Right. And so we've got to approach this, the this intersection in life with some some real thought behind it. Right. Right. Learn to control your nervous system. And learn learn to have power over those natural urges. Right. You don't go out there and murder somebody and then you do. It's a crime of passion. Why is a murder a crime of passion? Yeah. Right. Well, why is an unconsensual sex a crime of passion as well? Maybe it is. I'm not an attorney, but like learn to control your your nervous system. If you are a man, do the work.

44:17 Chego Do the work. Yeah. But in the time, make sure that you have a good support system around you, because what you don't want is for your friends to judge you. And she goes into I'm sure all four of us have known a guy where you're like, he can't go around girls.

44:39 Braxton Especially these two. Yeah, we have one.

44:41 Danny We had one. Yeah. So you talk about the sharp cases. I mean, there's hundreds of times where there's so many young girls who come to people like us who are neutral and they're confiding in us about the realities of the men that are. We had a friend.

44:55 Braxton We had a friend who called us into the office and was like, I need to talk to you guys. Yeah. And we were like, well, we can't retaliate because then that gives him ammo of whatever may come of this meeting that we had. We had to go to our NCO and be like, we don't want to have to do this, but this has to be addressed. Yeah.

45:19 Chego And Peggy talks about like that whole scenario in the book, because whether it's college, whether it's high school, whether it's junior high, whether it's the military, whether it's just you and I in our own world. We know people that take it to the next step or do the wrong thing. Are we comfortable as men to call that person out most of the time? Right. We usually just sit back. Try to like, we're not always like the best to like voice our opinion.

45:50 Tyler And sometimes I'm going to one up you. Yeah, I'm going to one up. Yeah, right. Like, there's no need to pad your stats, guys. Like it is what it is. Having a notch count is not, you know, there's nothing. There's there's really got a measure of a man having a notch count. Yeah.

46:08 Braxton And and like I I know he will attest to this is like. Whenever we're out, when we would go out and we were both in North Carolina at the same time or when we had gotten back from the deployment, we had to be very careful, very, very careful that our words weren't misconstrued and that like what our actions were saying weren't going the wrong way. Because any amount of consent.

46:35 Tyler And we go past it, it automatically will ruin and tarnish what we have worked so hard to create. So the integrity of the program, the integrity of the system.

46:48 Chego Wow. That's I mean, that's powerful. It is powerful. And like we said, this is a heavy conversation. We brought these guys in here and they had no clue what we were going to go down, what we were going to die. Right. And we didn't. And what we're looking for is just to remind that you can see that Tyler and I are not afraid to talk to our younger generation. We we we are not afraid to stand up, to to hold our shoulders back and to be role models to these guys and to the fact that like the girls in our life, while we tease about like there's not very many of them, but they they're very comfortable knowing that all of us as a whole protect and guide or protect their values because we have strong values ourselves. Right. Yeah. And and we're like I said, we're this is a this is a conversation that we're going to continue. The book has a way more details. These are the two things that Tyler and I, we really wanted to cover. We want to talk about and porn, consent, those things. You want to make sure that you're really, really covering with your with your people. And you want to make sure that you have a good solid foundation and a good solid basis to say, I can stand on these values. I can stand on these principles and these core things. We're going to we're going to be OK with and we're going to have each other back. We're going to we're going to defend each other fully. We have a lot of things coming up. We're going to give these two guys opportunity to give us some social media shout outs. I don't know if either of these two are very both of these two knuckleheads. Don't do very many social medias. And that's great. Like, that's the kind of that's the kind of thing that like I I preach to my kids, I I have social media, but I don't really understand it very much. Well, most of the time, most of the time, these guys have to help me out. So we'll give Braxton a chance to give social media shout out upcoming stuff that he has going on and what he'd like, where you can find him if you I think he's a gamer. I think he plays video games. They'll give his handle. You guys have to give up and go play some. I think they play Mario Kart and some other stuff. You guys can go challenge him to a match or something like that. And then so then we'll give Chago a chance to do the same thing.

49:20 Braxton I don't have much social media. I have my Facebook, which is Braxton O'Connor. And while I do game, I don't really game with people that I don't really know. So other than that, you have a Tinder profile. Yeah, I do not do any social media dating. I've learned the hard way that it's just easier to do it in person. But you'll waste it.

49:42 Chego So what you got going on? So you're so you're home.

49:45 Braxton Oh, you have a big trip coming up. I do. I'm going to Israel, actually, here in the next few weeks, which I'm super excited for home on leave right now. I've actually been away from my unit for about 40 days, which has been bliss. Amazing. What do you have left in the army? I got about a year and a half left in the army before I get with this guy. And we start our next chapter and figure out what's going on next. And so summer plans. Live as much as possible. Yeah, live my life to the fullest.

50:17 Chego You got a couple of concerts. We're going to go see Tyler Childers. We're going to hang out with him in August.

50:23 Braxton We're going August 18th in Wilmington, North Carolina to Tyler Childers.

50:27 Chego Yeah, that's going to be awesome. Yeah, got to see George Strait this year. That was bucket list. Good, good. Cool.

50:35 Danny And so, Chago. Hey, so my Instagram is Roman period man, Chago. R-O-M-A-N-M-A-N-C-H-E-G-O as my Instagram. Other than that, my summer plans right now are doing some travel and I'm going to El Paso next week and New Mexico next month. The future for me is finishing school, be done by next May. Yeah. And like I said, I'm working with the veterans. I'm doing a gaming tournament here soon. Dropped Off Gaming is the name of it. And we're getting started to help out veterans everywhere as a whole. So that's the future for me. Thank you so much for having me. And as a guest.

51:14 Tyler Yeah, for sure. Great voices, great voices. Of course, you can always look up lost boy scouts, Instagram, Twitter. I got told by another coach, I got to start a TikTok. I don't know about you. I got to. Everyone says start a TikTok. TikToks. Yeah. We're boycotting TikTok.

51:33 Chego So still for me, Danny, is a compassionate underscore gentleman, which is on Instagram and Facebook. We are training at Park City Jiu Jitsu. Braxton will be in this week for he'll be out there. So if you want to come and he's a white belt, but Matt has a ton of wrestling experience. So you want to come test him out. He's interested. Always. Yeah, he's good. So we're going to we have the workshops coming up. We have we're still working on doing the breathing workshop, the coaching workshops with Tyler that you can give him a chance to help you out and do all of those things that he does. He does great work. He does great work for young men. He does great work for men just to give you an opportunity to talk about what's going on. Tyler does a really good job of giving you space, holding space so that you can find the answers that you're looking for without him pushing or even like forcing those things. He does. He has a really good ear.

52:39 Tyler Thank you, Danny. There's a beautiful endorsement. Yeah. And when you know better, you do better. Right. And, you know, learning learning should be something that we we pursue throughout our whole life. Thanks for tuning into this episode. Wherever you got it. Thank you, GoPro, for all of the joys of working with your products.

52:57 Chego Yeah, we love it. We love it. We're going to include these guys as social media handles. They're they're gaining handles. And then we will make sure that we include Chagos, anything that he has for that gaming for veterans. Yeah. Don't forget veterans. Any opportunity you can. These dudes, these do sign the down the line. They put their name on the line. They are not afraid to go in and and and defend your your right

53:26 Tyler to critique us or to be a ceiling fan. Yes. Yeah. Thank you guys.

53:31 Chego Cheers. Cheers, everybody. You have to take care of yourself. Yep.